I want to cry

[ravan]

But I'm just numb. THIS, is what I've been talking about, raving against, and wishing I had the might to stop for the last 4 years.

When a holocaust survivor decidress to return to Germany because he sees the country he's living in heading down the fascist road, I have the bittersweet knowledge that I have been seeing the signs right. The world is in for a rough ride unless we can stop this shit before the world decides it has to bomb us back into the stone age to protect itself from the lunatic that is our "leader".

Don't bother to deny it, or defend that son of a Bush squatting in the White House. I don't want to hear it. No more appeasement.

Comments

[judith.livejournal.com]

I don't know if the event actually took place - that is, if this guy actually met his neighbor and had this conversation - but to me it doesn't matter. I have seen the same thing happening. I am struck by the blindness of so many of my fellow citizens - which, too, is similar to Nazi Germany.

It's interesting that in general we have a very much less law-abiding outlook than do Germans - a generalization, I know, but culturally I believe it's so - but that doesn't mean the same kind of mindless hate can't grow and thrive here. There is a major sheeplike nature to many Americans. Perhaps many humans of whatever nationality.

When someone shrugs at torture and suggests that it's "necessary" I wonder if the same person would have said that if these things had happened under Clinton. More and more I see people being apologists and justifying actions in a mindless way. Finding any way to explain the insanity of this administration and its corporate and religious supporters. Never questioning. What makes a person like this?

And of course the torture episodes are such a small part of the bigger picture. I only mentioned that because it sprang to mind first.

I agree. No more appeasement. Nothing for that clown.

[witchchild]

Came up in my lj too, is there verification?

[weofodthignen]

Well, yeah.

I've been reading the front pages of the NY Times and Wall Street Journal as I deliver them. The Fed Ex collaborateur thing was the main story on the latter yesterday. The NY Times keeps digging into the torture, but especially the killing of prisoners. I'm afraid their story less than a week ago about the Iraqi cab driver who was tortured to death when his inquisitors didn't even really believe he was guilty of anything . . . tempted me to post it in redsonja's lj and ask how she could still be proud of having served in the US military. I have no love whatsoever for Communism. I still like this country. But if I were a US veteran I would be deeply ashamed. And article after article mentions that people in these filthy murderers' hometowns are outraged when their medals are taken away, let alone when they are tried for their crimes. I'm blinded by rage as I read such things.

And I lost a much valued friend, as you know, not even for saying things like this . . . merely for allowing people to criticize Bush. Ye gods.

I'll be on IRC again tonight, btw, albeit exhausted. Hope you have secured some time off, whether you use some of it to come talk to us or not :-)

M

[jemyl.livejournal.com]

Do you really, really think that this is something new? Do you really think that no prisoners were tortured or killed in the Korean, Viet Nam or World Wars? Hell, we even interred our own citizens in those. The McCarthy Era saw Communist Pinkos at every turn and many Americans lost their jobs and families over that Jackass and his wild accusations. All of them, yes all of the tortures and wild accusations and gaybashing and blacks killed etc in the name of "justice" or "war" are based on one thing and that is FEAR. It is basically a fear of the unknown combined with the idea that they CAN get away with it. Did it ever occur to you that now, thanks to LJ and sites like the Freedom Press and reporters who report the news even though it ends up meaning the end of their jobs, the age-old torture and killing of prisoners and people who just disappear are finally being reported? It is much harder now to keep things under wraps. I say HOORAY!

I won't debate Bush with you. I do assert, however, that a lot of people who opposed Clinton just seemed to drop from the face of the earth or end up dead. The problem is not a Bush problem. It is a problem of a military organization that has heretofore not had to answer to anyone for how prisoners were treated because no one had the guts to report it. Can you blame them? Now, with so much better and more open communication throughout the world, it is much harder to hide the dirty deeds.

Don't sell the American people short. Though we may seem like a bunch of sheep, history has shown that the wool cannot be pulled over our eyes for long. I make it a point not to believe completely the propaganda of either side in matters like this. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

There are people who have a lot to gain by discrediting our troops, all of our military and our government. If they can divide us enough, they believe that they can just waltz in and take over and we will all be speaking Farsi.

There are also a bunch of jerks in the Bush administration, (Cheney and friends) who truly believe that they can dupe us into anything. I guess they never met Bubba! Bubba will give all kinds of lip service to the government and then go out and kill him a deer whenever it starts to eat up his tomato plants and season be damned. Bubba understands torturing your enemy if that enemy is a threat. Bubba also has a sense of what is right and wrong and will brook no one interfering with that, nomatter what their office or rank. Our world has a lot more Bubbas than you might realize. They are not likely to be the ones standing up and drawing all the fire for speaking out. Instead, they work quietly, like a fifth column, bringing about a number of small changes, a judge here, a representative, a military leader, reporter, senator there, until one day the jerks are no longer able to garner enough power/votes/loyal drones to do their bidding. I have seen it happen in this country throughout its history.

Just think, forty years ago you would never have known about the torture. The news was much more managed then. Now the mainstream media is being seen for the bias it has and people are questioning as never before. The Bay Area is not always a good barometer of how things are. Things there tend to be exaggerated, everything in every way both good and bad. That the torture has come to light and there is such a rumble over it is good. Look for much more before this is over. War really is hell, for all involved and whether we like it or not, we are involved because our friends and families are involved.

Continued from above ~~~

[jemyl.livejournal.com]

There is another little secret I think you might know, but could have forgotten. Those very fundy Christians that we both dislike will turn in a New York minute on Bush and Company if they think that mistreatment of prisoners is being condoned by them. Fundies are funny about stuff like that. They will cut the feet out from under anyone, especially another Christian, for telling an untruth or taking a life unnecessarily.

OH, and I don't care if y'all disagree with me. Just don't flame me. I know that I cannot change your minds. I just want you to watch for the Bubba signs as well as the fascist ones. I also think that you and your speaking out is doing much more good than you can imagine. For one thing it makes people like me think. It makes Bubba think and keeps all of us from becoming complacent. Remember that you don't see the end of the ripple you begin when you throw a pebble of truth into the pond of deceit. (Love you, my Ravan beauty! When you comin' this way?)