ravan: by icons r us (flamethrower - from icons r us)
ravan ([personal profile] ravan) wrote2006-08-10 03:05 pm
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"Liquid Explosives"

OK, I've read some of the articles and such about liquid explosives from the BBC. They all allude to some vague, nebulous ingredients that might be able to be combined to make a liquid explosive, or combining a liquid and a solid.

They read like bullshit, as in, as credible as "red mercury" being a nuclear material.

Yes, there are liquids that can be combined to make explosives. In order to get explosives out of these, they have to be highly concentrated. Some are considered "volatile". This means they stink.

Take acetone, a well known ingredient in nail polish remover. The concentration is low, the smell is high. If someone decided to "do their nails" on an airplane flight, they'd get lynched - that shit is vicious in an enclosed environment.

Or various acidic drain cleaners: hard to handle and package without burning yourself, or sufficiently low strength to not do anything more than fizzle. These stink too.

Hydrogen peroxide: the stuff you can buy in the drugstore is low concentration. It would have to be concentrated (not a simple process), then repacked in the original bottle. It smells when you open it, too. Hair bleach developer has a slightly higher concentration, but again has the smell problem.

Gasoline/Fuel oil: first, it smells; second, its already prohibited in aircraft cabins.

So, basically, it would take a lot of effort, coordination, and ingenuity by the terrorists, plus gross apathy on the part of their fellow passengers. Ain't gonna happen. Not when passengers that look like they *might* be doing something funky get tackled promptly by fellow travellers.

[identity profile] ravan.livejournal.com 2006-08-11 12:40 am (UTC)(link)
Also, I don't consider risks to health and sanity merely "inconvenient". Dehydration and food poisoning are not just "inconveniences", they are serious health matters, and can have a long term, cumulative effect.

As far as I'm concerned, air travel while disabled was already enough of a PITA that I drove to Seattle rather than fly and put up with the phoney security. It's 1,000 miles from here.

Now my drive v.s. fly threshold has increased. The car rental is cheaper than bail, after all.

I refuse to succumb to the senseless paranoia and overblown hysteria - I won't "play along" with it. Reasonable precautions are one thing - but this crap went past reasonable years ago.

[identity profile] koga.livejournal.com 2006-08-11 01:37 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah. Right before the planes flew in to buildings and random farmland because 19 kids had boxcutters?

Look, you want to be rightiously indignant that YOU HAVE BEEN PUT UPON.. you go right ahead.

But remember, travel by air is a fucking privilage, not a right. You want to drive, do that. Take the train. But air travel ain't exactly in the constitution. You're off base and you're ill informed, worse, you show absolutly no interest in actually observing information put in front of you, instead relying on what you =know= to be true.

Just like any other christian fundimentalist.

[identity profile] ravan.livejournal.com 2006-08-11 02:36 am (UTC)(link)
...travel by air is a fucking privilage, not a right. You want to drive, do that. Take the train. But air travel ain't exactly in the constitution.

So the ability to travel by a particular mode is a priviledge, not a right if it isn't mentioned in the Constitution? Guess what? No mode of a right to travel (by any means) is mentioned in the Constitution. From usconstitution.net (http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html). But, note the following:
The Right to Travel

As the Supreme Court notes in Saenz v Roe, 98-97 (1999), the Constitution does not contain the word "travel" in any context, let alone an explicit right to travel (except for members of Congress, who are guaranteed the right to travel to and from Congress). The presumed right to travel, however, is firmly established in U.S. law and precedent. In U.S. v Guest, 383 U.S. 745 (1966), the Court noted, "It is a right that has been firmly established and repeatedly recognized." In fact, in Shapiro v Thompson, 394 U.S. 618 (1969), Justice Stewart noted in a concurring opinion that "it is a right broadly assertable against private interference as well as governmental action. Like the right of association, ... it is a virtually unconditional personal right, guaranteed by the Constitution to us all." It is interesting to note that the Articles of Confederation had an explicit right to travel; it is now thought that the right is so fundamental that the Framers may have thought it unnecessary to include it in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights.
So, essentially, it's not written in to the literal Constitution, but "it is a right broadly assertable against private interference as well as governmental action. Like the right of association, ... it is a virtually unconditional personal right, guaranteed by the Constitution to us all." Please note that no mention is made of the means of travel. There is no differentiation between car, bus, train, plane, or bicycle. Either the right to all exists, or none. I would say, based on the above, that the right exists to travel by any means you can afford. You're now spouting statist nonsense.

You're off base and you're ill informed, worse, you show absolutly no interest in actually observing information put in front of you, instead relying on what you =know= to be true.

Ah, yes, when you have no facts or logic, nor even precedent to back you up, resort to ad hominem attack. Please notice who could make use of a simple search engine, and provide at least a few unslanted citations for my position.

Just like any other christian fundimentalist.

Sorry, but your position is the one of the christian fundamentalist: advocating submission to authority as frightened, terrorized sheep. State or priest, what does it matter? Sheep are sheep.

[identity profile] raindrops.livejournal.com 2006-08-11 04:15 am (UTC)(link)
The presumed right to travel, however, is firmly established in U.S. law and precedent.

Hey, guess what?

It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is. (from Supreme Court ruling, Marbury v. Madison)

Who knew? The Supreme Court says that there's a separation of powers. OK, they said it once upon a time... we got a bunch of pansyarse rubberstamp motherfuckers on the bench now. But it's still the law.

Sheep are sheep.

And along with sheep and wolves, there are sheepdogs. Fear the dawg. ;-)

[identity profile] ravan.livejournal.com 2006-08-11 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Hey, guess what?

Yeah, law, precedent and even the Constitution don't matter much to this administration.

And along with sheep and wolves, there are sheepdogs. Fear the dawg. ;-)

o/~ You ain't nothin' but a houn' dawg... o/~

;-)

[identity profile] jilara.livejournal.com 2006-08-11 05:55 pm (UTC)(link)
TRAVEL, according to the various powers of government, over centuries of experience, is a priviledge, which MIGHT be accorded to the populace, but don't bet on it. And travel, by car, boat, mule, or foot, isn't in the Constitution, either.

Lack of right and means of travel was quite effective in the old Soviet Union in keeping the populace controlled. Not safe, controlled. I've been predicting since the 1970's that we will be in trouble when we start seeing more and more restrictive regulations on travel, more than anything else. It's nothing big. It's just a few steps, and a few more... "That's how freedom will end, not with a bang, but a rustle of file folders..." as someone said on the net around 1990. Go head, call me a conspiracy theorist. People have been doing it since I was in high school. But things I predicted then have been following a progression that matches certain patterns from past political situations. I don't know, maybe I just know too much about the Bolshevik Revolution, the Maoist government, and the French Revolution, and the Tokugawa bafuku, and... It's been proven, time and time again, through history, throughout the world, it's one of the most effective ways of controlling a restive population.